Rape is Bad? Really...I Had No Idea.




by Shaun Broyls

First of all, for the roughly 99% of you who have no idea who I am, my name is Shaun Broyls, I'm and actor and comedian who's been doing stand-up for a little over a decade, making jokes about all sorts of sensitive subjects- racism, sexism, pedophilia, quadriplegia- but to this point, no rape jokes. Unfortunately I've never raped anyone yet so I have no experience from which to draw material. However, I've got a Vegas trip planned in a couple months and hope to change that. 

That was a joke. I have no plans to rape anyone. I am not making light of those who have been raped. I am not condoning those who do the raping. I'm simply taking a horrible situation and doing what comedians do, which is somehow find a humorous slant to give people a chuckle. However, now we can add "rape" to the list of things comedians are never to talk about, and the constant censoring and over-scrutiny of everything we do is getting ridiculous. 

The rape joke "problem" recently came to light after a Daniel Tosh joke last summer, and now is a full on effort to scrub rape jokes from the repertoire of every comic on the planet. An article by blogger/reporter Sady Doyle vilified comedian Sam Morrill for his "proud and delighted" rape jokes in this piece last Saturday, and now just yesterday, Molly Knefel threw Patton Oswalt into the mix in this article for Salon, for his complacency in letting these things happen and not using his celebrity- in specific his Twitter account- to help stop the rape joke atrocity that apparently is taking over America's comedy clubs and indirectly giving the thumbs up to potential rapists out there because regardless of if it's morally and legally abhorrent, if a celebrity doesn't put their stamp of disapproval on it, it's fine to go ahead and do it anyway.

I'm sick of it. For those of you who don't know, this happens every few years, where a problem that has existed since the beginning of time is suddenly somehow worsened by the words of stand-up comedians or comedy sketches. A few years ago the hot-button issue became Domestic Violence, and Saturday Night Live became the poster child for the problem of the nation's ambivalence towards the issue after its sketch where Elin Woods stood next to a battered Tiger Woods after she'd caught him cheating. A few years before that, it was comics' use of the "N-word" which was bringing about the downfall of society, which really pissed me off- so much so that I made a comedy music video called "I'm Takin' Nigga Back", which was a light-hearted and funny, but also pretty pointed look at why I can use the word if I wanted to.

One of the issues I had with this latest soapbox rambling has to do with why I put the picture with the female model with the date rape t-shirt atop this piece. Why, Sady and Molly, did you not include the many female comedians who also include rape jokes in their material and instead just focus on the males, making it out like this is strictly a "problem" perpetrated by male comics? I just watched Amy Schumer's latest episode of Inside Amy Schumer, which is ridiculously funny. And by funny I mean: shocking, sick, twisted, wrong, without boundaries and totally worth it. In this episode, during one of her bits where she was doing stand-up, she did a rape joke, and not just a rape joke, she pointed to a woman in the audience and said something to the effect of, "I mean, look at you, you've probably been raped, right?" In the context of the overall segment of her act, it was hilarious. The girl was laughing. The audience was laughing. It WAS A JOKE. Now why is Amy Schumer off-limits and male comedians are not? Is it like that old argument of since I'm black, it's okay for me to say the N-word to my friend, but a white person can not? 

Why are we not looking at the context of jokes anymore- or more importantly, the INTENT of the joke? What are we supposed to do- have a checklist before we hit the stage of every possible scenario that could be considered offensive, then go to every individual member of the audience and ask if they would be offended by a joke on each topic, then check the ones where someone would be offended off the list? Every comedian has jokes that he/she knows has a chance of offending someone in the audience who's actually been personally affected by whatever it is we're talking about. HAD that woman in the audience actually been raped AND (this is also important) been UPSET by the joke, I don't know Amy Schumer, but I can pretty much guarantee that she would have felt bad about it. A prime example is when I was at a game or something years back, and had to shit REALLY bad and the only thing open was the handicap stall. I used it. When I came out, there was a guy waiting...IN A WHEELCHAIR. I felt like total shit and apologized profusely like a guy who slapped his girlfriend for the first time. But what were the odds of that actually happening? Not high. It's the same thing with doing stand-up. We look at the odds and we gamble that our material will be looked at as so obvious a joke that even if a person has been affected, they won't look at it as a personal attack against them. In that same vein, if the INTENT is to cause harm, i.e. Michael Richards' N-word rant years ago, without any attempt at humor whatsoever, well then we move from comedy set into hate speech and of course that should not be tolerated.

Two things before I end this:

1. It is not Patton Oswalt's obligation to use his Twitter account to champion every cause on the planet just because he has a million followers. As Charles Barkley said decades before him, he is NOT A ROLE MODEL. He is not the spokesperson for Aflac, and has no responsibility to temper his humor based on corporate strategy, current rape statistics or the bylaws of the Parents Television Council. Whether you're as big a celebrity as Patton, a guy in-between like Sam Morrill (who responded to Sady's article about himself here on his Facebook page) or as little a fish in the pond as myself, it is not our job to do anything but just that...our job. To chastise Patton Oswalt for not championing the cause of ending the rape joke is dangerous for many reasons:

Let's say Patton champions the anti-rape joke movement and people listen. You're satisfied he's done his duty as an influential celebrity. However, let's say he keeps going, and decides he's going to champion other causes he believes in as well. Let's say for argument's sake, that Patton believes that everyone should carry a gun on the border and "shoot down any Mexican that tries to cross into the good ol' Red, White and Blue". Well that'd be pretty bad wouldn't it? But guess what, you were just fine with him tweeting out his agenda when it was the same as yours. Now you're just as big a hypocrite as you accused him of being when you said he condemned the Boston Marathon bombing but then didn't step up and condemn rape jokes. One has absolutely nothing to do with the other. You can't pick and choose what you want him to say, just as you can't pick and choose what is and is not off limits for comedians to write jokes about. Plus, how funny would Patton be if all he did was be the Bono of comedy? Not very funny at all. There's a reason it's called "comic relief", and if he were to start being one of those entitled celebrities who feel it's their job to remind us of how bad off the world is, that would be dangerous to his career, as well.

2. We are comedians, some of us more famous than others. But we all have the same goal- to make people laugh. That's it. Some of us do it through clean comedy, some dirty, but the goal is always to take risks and push boundaries that you don't find in the mainstream. People don't come to a comedy club expecting NOT to groan once in a while. A comedy club is an intimate, sacred place that lends itself to the baring of souls and the shredding of them as well. If you take the time to drive to a comedy club, plunk down the $10 to get in, buy the 2 drink minimum and give up 2 hours of your life, you deserve to get something you couldn't get by sitting on the couch at home watching NBC. We're doing you a disservice if we aren't making you say "I can't believe he/she said that."

Honestly, if you don't like what's being said in a comedy club, don't go. There are plenty of other things to do. Hell, turn on any Tyler Perry sitcom. You definitely won't have to worry about having to deal with comedy there.


 

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Comments

  • 5/10/2013 3:58 PM some guy wrote:
    The odds of making fun of a random woman in the audience who has been the victim of sexual assault is 1 in 4.
    Reply to this
    1. 5/10/2013 4:18 PM Kofi wrote:
      About 600,000 people die of heart disease in the United States every year–that’s 1 in every 4 deaths. Does that mean jokes about heart attacks are off the table too?
      Reply to this
      1. 5/10/2013 10:49 PM jack wrote:
        This would be significant if rape and heart disease were related in any way. They are not, which makes your comment irrelevant.
        Reply to this
        1. 5/11/2013 10:28 AM Anonymous wrote:
          They both left my grampa feelin' pretty blue! Wakka wakka!
          Reply to this
    2. 5/10/2013 4:21 PM some other guy wrote:
      Not that it matters much, but it's one in six.
      Reply to this
    3. 5/11/2013 4:04 PM EvilPundit wrote:
      More like 1 in 1000.

      Don't trust the fake statistics that feminists make up.
      Reply to this
  • 5/10/2013 4:48 PM Dave wrote:
    Man, it must be awful that eevery couple years people tell you you shouldn't say something. Imagine what it's like for a woman in comedy who gets told every day she isn't funny, isn't welcome, should leave if she's offended.

    Look, you can say whatever you want. If you choose to be a bully and a dick, make lazy jokes, and shit on people who have more than enough shit to deal with, that's on you. But this is 2013 and there's the internet and everyone else has the right to call you out on your douchery. If you can't handle criticism, if you think that's persecution, you should probably live in a cave and tell your jokes to squirrels.
    And to anyone who doesn't like this comment: it's just a joke. Why are you trying to censor me? I'm so oppressed now!
    Reply to this
  • 5/10/2013 4:49 PM 48923 wrote:
    The difference between rape and heart disease is that people tend to believe you when you say you have heart disease. They also tend not to say you were asking for it or deserve it. Sooooo... not really a good analogy there.
    Reply to this
    1. 5/10/2013 5:10 PM Kofi wrote:
      The point is life is full of lots of horrible things but some, for reasons I struggle to understand, have decided that rape is the thing that can not be joked about. If you're saying someone shouldn't joke about something on the grounds that it could offend someone in the audience or remind them of something horrible that happened to them that leaves your topics of discussion fairly thin.

      For instance someone close to me was murdered, a victim of gun violence. This event was tragic for me but I'm not going to say that the topic of murder is off limits for a comic because of how it effects me or the other 32,000 families a year that are effected by gun violence resulting in death.

      The world is an ugly place rape it a terrible crime no logical person is pro-rape or pro-violence against women, I think any comic who makes a joke about those topics is working under the assumption that the audience understand that. But people some people are working under the assumption that they don't and this is where we differ.
      Reply to this
      1. 5/10/2013 5:35 PM 48923 wrote:
        Your point was understood. What I'm saying is there is a difference between rape and almost every other terrible thing that can happen to a human in the way its viewed by and large in our society.

        There is no comparable thing to it. Gun violence victims get almost universal sympathy and support outside of a comedy club. So do victims of disease. Rape victims get shit on from almost everyone.

        If we lived in a very different society, one that believed rape victims, one that didn't put the victim on trial (literally and figuratively) and one that supported the victim the way other victims of crimes are generally supported we wouldn't be having this discussion. At least not with this kind of emotion tied to it.

        FWIW, I do love jokes that make fun of rapists. They are few and far between though.
        Reply to this
        1. 5/10/2013 6:02 PM Kofi wrote:
          Gun violence victims get almost universal sympathy and support outside of a comedy club.

          Guess you've never seen or heard of the NRA or Fox News?

          Is the way rape victims are treated in some instances completely tragic and wrong? Absolutely. But lets not get in the business comparing tragedy because when something terrible happes to you it doesn't feel smaller or less significant than any other terrible event. I could argue that comment you made is way more offensive than anything Sam Morrill said. Tragedy is tragedy and getting rid of jokes about any particular topic doesn't make it any more or less bad. You can argue a particular joke is in poor taste or not funny but arguing that a topic is inherently off limits in every situation is incredibly myopic.
          Reply to this
          1. 5/10/2013 6:40 PM Matt wrote:
            "Tragedy is tragedy and getting rid of jokes about any particular topic doesn't make it any more or less bad."

            I can't tell if you're being serious and actually missing the point or being obtuse.

            Comedians do not have to be purveyors of social justice, but they need to understand how joking about rape can be harmful in certain contexts.

            Keep in mind that no matter how edgy and ironic your rape joke is, it may very well be going over the head of real actual rapists, would-be rapists, rape-apologists, misogynists and victim-blamers who will be laughing not because they "get" the "transgressive humor" but because it actually reinforces their misogynistic beliefs. Same goes for jokes about race, sex, disabilities, etc. If they are done poorly, they are not just in "poor taste" and not funny - they are causing harm, from a systemic standpoint.

            There are likely not many comedy fans/audiences who deliberately give other people heart attacks - which go unreported - and then proceed to get away with it.
            Reply to this
            1. 5/10/2013 7:14 PM Kofi wrote:
              "it may very well be going over the head of real actual rapists, would-be rapists, rape-apologists, misogynists and victim-blamers"

              As the article points out you can not as a comic prepare for every single possibility. Better not joke about killing my mother because some shit head in the audience might not get that I'm joking. You sound like one of those people who blame John Lennon's death on J. D. Salinger instead of the psycho that pulled the trigger. If there are real actual rapists, would-be rapists, rape-apologists, misogynists and victim-blamers who are sitting in your audience they were like that before they showed up. If you do something shitty it's on you not the comics you like, the music you listen to, the books that you read, the videogames you play or the political pundits you follow because the overwhelming majority of the people who absorbed all the same material you did managed to keep it together.
              Reply to this
              1. 5/10/2013 8:24 PM Matt wrote:
                "As the article points out you can not as a comic prepare for every single possibility."

                Actually, as a comic, you totally CAN prepare and to a lot of us it's the difference between a lazy comic and a great one.

                "If there are real actual rapists, would-be rapists, rape-apologists, misogynists and victim-blamers who are sitting in your audience they were like that before they showed up."

                Exactly my point. A misogynist doesn't laugh at a sexist/rape joke because they think it's edgy and ironic, they laugh because it reinforces and strengthens their shitty, pre-existing misogynist worldview. Comedians - and everyone, really - can decide whether or not they want to play a role in that. And they can if they want - freedom of speech, and all - but then they have to prepare to get called out for it.

                "You sound like one of those people who blame John Lennon's death on J. D. Salinger instead of the psycho that pulled the trigger."

                What I "sound like" to you is irrelevant to this entire discussion. At no point did anyone bring up comedian's responsibility for the behavior of criminals, and if that's what you read from my comment, you read it incorrectly.
                Reply to this
              2. 5/11/2013 11:52 AM JP wrote:
                Go back to Fox News, they're looking for you!
                Reply to this
          2. 5/10/2013 6:44 PM 48923 wrote:
            When a gun violence victim gets treated the same as a rape victim does then we can talk. Until then we have nothing more to say because you have ~no idea what you are talking about.

            This is not about comparing tragedies. This is about reality. The reality was and is that rape victims are not viewed in the same way as other victims of assaults and illnesses.

            "getting rid of jokes about any particular topic doesn't make it any more or less bad."

            No it doesn't but again, the rape victims are getting shit from everyone. Fox News and the NRA are a part of society but I guarantee you that there are way more people participating in rape culture than in gun culture. It's not even freaking close.

            "You can argue a particular joke is in poor taste or not funny but arguing that a topic is inherently off limits in every situation is incredibly myopic."

            Who said that? Did you read my last comment? Rape is not off limits. Making fun of rape victims? Yeah, that's off limits.
            Reply to this
            1. 5/10/2013 6:56 PM Kofi wrote:
              Did you read the article or any of the article it links to? The whole topic of this thing is people clamming all rape jokes are off limits. Sam Morrill didn't make fun of any real rape victim nor did Patton Oswalt yet people are upset with them.
              Reply to this
              1. 5/10/2013 7:12 PM 48923 wrote:
                If you're not trolling then... wow.

                "Did you read the article or any of the article it links to? The whole topic of this thing is people clamming all rape jokes are off limits."

                Yeeeesss. And no they're not please re-read.


                "Sam Morrill didn't make fun of any real rape victim nor did Patton Oswalt yet people are upset with them."

                It's not about making fun of any particular "real rape victim" it's the difference between calling out and mocking idiots who participate in rape culture and rapists and making fun of rape in general (which either directly or INDIRECTLY targets victims). There's a difference.

                Read this if you want: http://jezebel.com/an-open-letter-to-white-male-comedians-497503334
                Reply to this
                1. 5/10/2013 7:27 PM Kofi wrote:
                  I think what you ment was making rape joke were the victim is the butt of the joke not actual rape victim, those are two different things.

                  But this is still problematic, because your view of who is the butt of the joke maybe different than mine. The essence of Sam Morrill joke is that he is a comedian standing on stage, a situation in which most people are trying to be likable but instead of being likable he openly admitting to a terrible crime. He's the butt of the joke not his "girlfriend".
                  Reply to this
    2. 5/11/2013 6:32 PM Ron wrote:
      I've heard a lot more fat jokes than rape jokes in my lifetime. And it's obvious when some one is fat. Obesity is related to heart disease. People are blamed for being fat, even though obesity is a disease.
      Reply to this
  • 5/10/2013 5:13 PM Sioux wrote:
    I have been in the situation of being in the audience as a very talented, young, hip female comic made a (not very funny) rape joke at my expense (not realizing I have been raped, of course). Rather than ruin the rest of her (very funny) set, I chose to let it go. When I got home, I cried for an hour. For every asshole who gives an over-the-top, ill-conceived condemnation of your political insensitivity, there are probably several more polite people who were genuinely hurt.
    Reply to this
    1. 5/10/2013 7:38 PM Dan wrote:
      I am sorry that you were upset. That sucks. And I appreciate that you didn't heckle the comedian. But I believe that if someone is that vulnerable on ANY subject - that if it is joked about, they will cry for an hour - then that person should avoid comedy clubs or very carefully research who will be performing and what their material is.
      It's like having a serious peanut allergy. If you have a sensitivity that is outside the norm, the onus is on you to avoid situations that will trigger it. Comedy clubs are strictly an opt-in experience. No one has to go and risk getting their feelings hurt. Again, sorry for your experience.
      Reply to this
      1. 5/10/2013 8:41 PM Matt wrote:
        Wow, this is maybe the shittiest attitude I've ever seen. So if you've been raped and don't know what will have a triggering effect yet, stay the hell out of comedy clubs, buzzkill - we're trying to laugh in here!

        Even some victim-blaming for good measure - "Didn't want to experience a trigger from your assault? Shouldn't have come to a comedy club - your fault not ours! By the way sorry for your experience." Aw, you're so empathetic.
        Reply to this
        1. 5/10/2013 10:22 PM Dan wrote:
          First off, if my comment is "the shittiest attitude" you've "ever seen", then welcome to the internet, and indeed the world. Hyperbole, much?
          Second - yes! If you have a raw wound about something, be it rape, or cancer, or race, or whatever, you should understand that a comedy club is an adult venue where shocking things may be said. And that you are risking being triggered.
          Third, you are completely mis-using the term "victim blaming". Victim blaming is saying the victim deserved to be victimized. Do you see that in my comment?
          People and comedians are not psychics. No one can tell just by looking at you what your triggers are. So is it just rape jokes that should be sanitized from comedy shows because only rape victims' triggers count? Or do we scrub jokes involving race because some in the audience may have suffered discrimination? And so on. If every area that someone may be triggered by is off-limits, you've got a corporate show, enjoy your blandness. But some people choose to go to a private space where shocking and controversial things may be said.
          It just seems like common sense to me.
          If someone has a trigger that can affect them that strongly, they should seek alternate entertainment and not take the risk. That's not a condemnation of them. It's an understanding that not all activities are for all people at all times.
          Reply to this
      2. 5/10/2013 8:42 PM Matt wrote:
        Wow, this is maybe the shittiest attitude I've ever seen. So if you've been raped and don't know what will have a triggering effect yet, stay the hell out of comedy clubs, buzzkill - we're trying to laugh in here!

        Even some victim-blaming for good measure - "Didn't want to experience a trigger from your assault? Shouldn't have come to a comedy club - your fault not ours! By the way sorry for your experience." Aw, you're so empathetic.
        Reply to this
      3. 5/10/2013 8:47 PM Sioux wrote:
        I am not normally sensitive on the subject. She told several "rape" jokes that I found quite amusing, because they very articulately illustrated exactly how fucked up it can be to be a woman. I go to comedy clubs all the time, and expect to hear jokes on any number of topics. I have heard many, many jokes about rape without getting upset. The joke in question served no practical purpose other than to single out any rape victims in the room.

        Also, suggesting that being a rape victim (an estimated 17-25% of American women and 3-5% of men) is analogous to having a peanut allergy (0.4-0.6% of the entire US population) is a bit of an exaggeration. If I were to avoid anything that would remind me of rape or rape culture, I would not be able to go see movies, watch television, read the news, or interact with people. I am pretty desensitized to it by now. But, when someone goes out of their way to out me as a victim in public to a bunch of strangers, I can't really see what is funny about that.
        Reply to this
        1. 5/10/2013 10:45 PM Dan wrote:
          I take your word for what happened, as you were there and I wasn't and you seem like a reasonable person. And since you go to clubs a lot and didn't have a problem with the material per se, the joke that hurt you must have been far out of the ordinary for comedy club insults. I don't think that everyone should be expected to have such a thick skin that nothing can possibly trigger them - my issue is with people who are thin-skinned and prickly going to adult venues and then predictably being outraged and demanding change. Sorry you had a bad night.
          Reply to this
          1. 5/11/2013 8:00 AM Sioux wrote:
            I think the problem with some comics (especially young ones), is that they mistake being "edgy" (making a satirical or outrageous comment meant to malign or highlight obvious flaws in modern culture) with being an asshole. I do believe some people can make genuinely funny jokes about any topic (including rape). However, many people end up making a joke that is nothing more than a mean comment that hurts victims, rather than the perpetrators or culture that supports the perpetration of tragic crimes. These people should be called out for being assholes (and bad comedians).

            Calling out random successful comedians for not putting these pups in their place is silly. It's not Patton Oswalt's job to tell bad comedians that they suck, it's the entire audience's job not to laugh or ever buy tickets to see that asshole again. However, a lot of audiences are idiots who will laugh at anything, as long as the comedian said "fuck" at least 20 times during the set. And, well, who doesn't wish someone famous would tell those idiots that they are terrible human beings and should not be allowed to exist in public?
            Reply to this
  • 5/10/2013 5:33 PM Casey wrote:
    I agree with you that is not Patton's responsibility. I also agree that Amy is equally at fault. Yet, none of this still provides support for why rape jokes are considered ok. A woman telling the joke and a man having a choice about what causes he jumps behind are separate issues. What we are discussing is....Is a rape joke a topic that can be addressed comically? I think what we forget, as American residents, is how drastic of a problem this is... particularly in other countries, contrast to the shirt you presented above. Women and young girls in India are being gang-raped with no real chance of justice or peace. If men and women comedians had to deal with the probable chance of their young child being violated, this debate would not even be a topic on the mind or heart. We might be losing touch on what the real issue while deciding if it can be a part of a punchline.
    Reply to this
    1. 5/11/2013 4:08 PM EvilPundit wrote:
      There are lots of bad things in the world. Comedians joke about them.

      Rape is not some kind of special case that should be exempted. It's just a crime like any other.
      Reply to this
  • 5/10/2013 6:16 PM talltyrionlannister wrote:
    "I felt like total shit and apologized profusely like a guy who slapped his girlfriend for the first time."

    But they never do this though?
    Reply to this
    1. 5/11/2013 4:01 PM Beatrix wrote:
      This is actually a fairly common aspect of the cycle of domestic violence. The aggressor snaps, then later apologizes, sometimes subtly shifting blame onto the person they hurt. Often the victim will come to rationalize this behavior and believe they really are at fault, and the cycle continues.
      Reply to this
  • 5/10/2013 7:42 PM Scott H wrote:
    "Let's say for argument's sake, that Patton believes that everyone should carry a gun on the border and 'shoot down any Mexican that tries to cross into the good ol' Red, White and Blue'."

    You shouldn't joke about that, that's pretty much spot on his view on the subject.
    Reply to this
  • 5/11/2013 9:51 AM name wrote:
    Joke about the rapists, not the victim or the act itself. Less people will condemn you for your ignorance. I'm sure quite a few people would be upset by it, but at least you're not making jokes about innocent people.
    Reply to this
  • 5/11/2013 11:48 AM Ned wrote:
    I feel like rape has been around a lot longer than comedians making jokes on stage. Could be wrong.
    Reply to this
  • 5/11/2013 11:51 AM Anthony wrote:
    Did someone call the funny police? Because look at these responses, good lord.

    If these people spent half of their time toward physically accompanying every woman in the world as they do toward commenting on the internet, I think we'd have this rape thing solved.
    Reply to this
  • 6/5/2013 6:36 PM bulk wrote:
    Seriously?
    The world is this fucked up and everyone is this busy whining?
    If you are so committed to righting wrongs go do good in the world.
    Troll fighting online is meaningless.
    People fighting this are misguided and wasting their efforts or they are furthering their careers.
    We can't make comedic laws.
    You want to help rape victims?
    Volunteer, donate money, do something.
    Reply to this
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  • 2/6/2014 12:38 AM xxx wrote:
    so comforting that you likened campaigning against rape jokes to wanting to shoot mexicans.
    the stance taken on this by many is slimming the number of comedians i have respect for. if you honestly can't come up with a better joke then maybe you aren't funny.
    Reply to this
  • 3/9/2014 11:04 PM microneedle roller wrote:
    I don’t really think this can be a serious topic to draw sarcasm with.It has very much a notion of sensitivity to it and may be some people will find it offensive.I hope you can slander and joke on something else.
    Reply to this
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